Forecasting Success

Hello, thank you for joining us.

This is the first ever episode
of ARAWC Forecasting Success.

I'm your host, Ryan Brannon, and
I'm very excited to bring this new

podcast to you, where we're going
to be looking at risk management,

employee injuries, and how those are
effective in the entire world

of the workers comp ecosphere.

And I'm very excited to
have my first guest with us.

He's Michael Bradford, the Director
of Risk Management for BrightSpring Health Services, who

is an expert in the field and has been
working there for a long, long time.

Hello, Michael.

Hi, Ryan.

Thanks for having me today.

Thanks for being on.

I appreciate you taking
the time and joining us.

Absolutely.

I'm honored to be here.

Looking forward to hearing all that
you have to say and sharing your

expertise with all of our audience.

I look forward to it as well.

So to help us get us kicked
off, Michael, why don't you tell

everybody a little bit about

yourself?

Sure.

Again, my name is Michael Bradford.

I am Director of Risk Management
for BrightSpring Health Services.

I've been with the
company for over 25 years.

And I specialize in occupational
injuries for our workforce.

Fantastic.

That's a long time to be
a one company these days.

It is a long time.

I will say we have gone through some
acquisitions, but beyond that, it's

been a tremendous experience and
an incredible company to work for.

Fantastic.

So in that case, let's go back
and start at the beginning there.

How did you, how did you

Get involved with that
company 25 years ago.

Well, that's actually kind of funny
because apparently I never even

applied for a risk management role.

According to our human resources
department, I ended up applying

for a different position.

I got passed over and another manager
happened to notice my resume in the

stack, happened to notice in particular
specific software experience that I had.

That jumped out at her.

And so she ended up hiring me.

And one of the first tasks that I
was ever charged with was to handle

the workers compensation claims.

All right.

So given that, how did you, how
did, how did you go about knowing

what to do on handling workers
compensation claims given your software

experience?

Well, a lot of it was flying
by the seat of my pants, right?

And trying to surround
myself with folks who were.

Experts in the field and trying
to learn as much as I could.

And then hands on experience, right?

That was, that was probably my key
to learning what to do is basically

you start seeing the process
and you start developing that

process and then you tailor that
process towards for your company.

Right.

And so was that a new process
that you created or was it a

process that was in place that
you just picked up on and learned?

Well, I mean, we started off with
statutory workers comps, so you were bound

by those rules and you could not deviate.

But when it came to our company's
experience, we were able to learn

quite a lot from our employee injuries.

What could we do to improve?

Safety what could we do to
prevent future injuries?

What could we do to help in support
those individuals that we provide

services to which at the end of
the day was, was the finish line,

right, of trying to provide quality

services.

So that that's actually a pretty
good segue into, you say you started

out with statutory workers comp.

And in looking at better outcomes
across the board and how you can help

the workers and looking for better
results and trying to figure out how

to do it better, what along the line
there, I'm assuming your company.

Made a jump.

Yes.

And so can you kind of, how long ago was
that and what was the impetus for that?

Can you kind of walk us
through a little bit of that?

Sure.

I'm, I'm, I'm thrilled to say
that as of June of this year we've

celebrated 20 years of being a
non subscriber here in Texas.

Wow.

And I remember that challenge.

Our vice president of risk at
the time he charged us with

developing a non subscriber plan.

Well, my experience was in workers comp.

I've never heard of non subscription.

And so I started talking with folks.

I started talking with my
workers comp defense attorneys.

Anybody I could go, what do you
know about non subscription?

This is, this is so unusual.

I've never heard of this.

And honestly, it terrified me.

It absolutely terrified me.

Well, wait, so we're not going
to follow the workers comp rules?

Well, no, you don't have to.

As long as you follow the rules
governed by the TDI and by ERISA.

Still scared the Dickens out of me.

But once we started and we
implemented the plan and we got to

see how it worked, it was amazing.

The fact that you could provide
quality benefits to your employees,

making sure that they're taken care
of, you could tailor your benefits.

Towards your company to ensure that
your employees don't go without and

suffer those financial hardships that
so many do under the statutory systems.

Yeah.

It's, it's funny you say that it,
it scared you when your company

was making that transition, I can
assure you as a former regulator,

workers comp regulator in Texas.

When I first got there and learned
that a good quarter of the.

Employee market in Texas was potentially
outside of our regulatory jurisdiction.

That scared me too.

So I looked into a lot just trying
to understand why a company.

Would want to go that route.

And if they were honestly
protecting their, their employees.

And during my tenure there, we came up
with what we called the lone star safety

award, where you know, essentially if
you're, if your company had Three years

with no accidents and other qualifying
metrics, you could be eligible to

receive the Lone Star Safety Award.

We would come out there as the
agency to deliver the award.

We would invite the state rep and state
senator from the area, local press,

get the company in the, in their paper.

It was a kind of a big deal.

Well, towards the end of my tenure
as commissioner, one of the companies

that we gave the award to was a non
subscriber and it was amazing because

they, they gave us a tour and this is a
custom shelving custom woodworking shop.

So a lot of saws, a lot of very
dangerous equipment, and they

walked us through all the safety
processes that they had in place.

And when we were given the award and
it was time for the photo op, the

CEO of the company looked over at
me and says, you do know that we're.

Non subscribers.

Right.

And I said, of course, and he kind
of gave me this look like, why

are you here giving us an award?

And I said, I said, to be honest with
you, it doesn't matter to me if I

regulate you or not, as long as you're
protecting your employees, that's right.

And I think that's, that's
something that Texas got right.

And it's amazing to me that
your company figured out the

right way to do it 20 years ago.

So going back to you and, and, and
your interest in making sure that

your employees get the best outcomes
and recoverable if your injuries

and everything that comes with
that how did you go about tailoring

your plan for your employees?

First, we worked with our national
broker and our non subscriber broker

to develop our non subscriber plan.

And the plan was initially
designed based on other brokers

clientele in the healthcare sector.

So that's where we started.

But then as we start, as we developed our
experience in the program, we found, well,

there's certain things that don't work.

Our non subscriber plan was developed to
provide comparable, if not better benefits

than the workers compensation system.

So we wanted to go above and beyond.

Well not too long after we kicked
off our program, we had an executive

director involved in a pretty bad
auto accident, shattered her ankle.

And she was single.

Had a house, had two cars, and she
calls me up and goes, there, there's a

financial cap on the lost wage benefits.

So, you know, Michael, I'm just to let
you know, this is going to be a little

bit tough for me until I recover.

And all of a sudden I realized, wait
a minute, well, that's not fair.

Now, if you look in the worker's
comp system, employees get about

70, 75 percent of their gross
wages and lost wage benefits.

So what can we do that's better?

And we decided to update our plan.

We were able to improve
our benefits in which.

Now we have no reduction in lost wage
benefits compared to an employee's salary.

So if they earned a hundred dollars
a week prior to their injury, they're

going to receive a hundred dollars
a week and lost wage benefits.

So that way our employees don't suffer
because they were hurt on our job.

Yeah, it's interesting you say
that that's a fight at the Texas

Capitol almost every session.

It seems like there's legislation filed
and speaking of the Capitol obviously

we're, we're right across the street
from it in Austin where, where where my

home base is and and, and yours as well.

But it just kind of reminded me that when
you said that, that we are at the Capitol

and during the legislative sessions.

There's always legislation filed to try
to raise the amount of money that you can

get in workers compensation if you're an
injured employee to a hundred percent,

and that never seems to go anywhere
and I don't really know the impetus

for that, but it's interesting to me to
hear you say that you can do that as a

non subscriber and that you do do that.

You most definitely can.

In fact, in that situation, so.

We'll call her Susie was injured in the
auto accident and she brought this to

my attention and she wasn't necessarily
complaining or anything of that nature,

but she was trying to help me and
learning, you know, what is going on.

So we were able to retro
change our injury plan.

Because we were improving benefits.

We weren't taking away
anything from our workforce.

We were adding to it.

So we were able to backdate
the revision of our plan.

So that way her date
of injury was covered.

And that way she didn't lose financially
just because she was hurt on the job.

And that is one of the.

Probably most successful components of
being a non subscriber is that at any

time you can improve those benefits.

You can, and it doesn't
have to be effective today.

It doesn't have to be effective tomorrow.

You can make it back.

You can backdate it so that
way your employees are covered

and they don't go without.

And

if, and I'm assuming that
helped what did we call her?

Susie Susie.

I'm assuming that that helped
Susie get back to work and

not leave the company and,

Oh, absolutely.

She didn't suffer the financial hardships.

We were able to provide her
with quality medical care under

the guys, our medical director.

So that way we ensured that her.

Treatment was taken care of in
a quality way and she did not

have to suffer financially.

So that way, once she recovered,
she could pick up, return to

work and then move on with life.

And that's what it's all about is
taking care of our injured employees.

There
you go.

So that's a great example.

And in fact, I was, I was going to ask
you for a good example, but you already

gave me one, but just for fun, can
you give us one of your most difficult

examples or your most difficult claim
that's ever come across your desk?

Besides an employee death, I'll say
one of the most difficult claims I had

was a lady in San Antonio had her thumb
ripped off when she placed her hand in

a moving industrial washer and dryer.

Ooh.

She was trying to hurry,
finish up her shift.

There were some comforters
that were running in the dryer.

She didn't wait for the cycle to finish.

She sticks her hand in, wraps
around her thumb and rips it off.

So I was able to work with her from the
very beginning once the claim was reported

until the very end, we ended up coming
to an amicable settlement agreement

in which she was fully taken care of.

It was incredibly hard for her.

I think it'd be incredibly hard
for anybody to lose any appendage,

whether it was an entire arm
or a finger or what have you.

So working with her.

Throughout the entire process
of making sure, okay, your

emergency care is taken care of.

Let's get you set up with a
primary treating physician.

Let's get you to the right specialists.

Let's get you to wound
care, a whole nine yards.

And so I was talking with her practically
every single day, every single day.

And then once it came to the point
that she was going to reach maximum

rehabilitative capacity, she was
going to plateau in her care.

She started talking to me about,
I don't want to go back to work.

I said, well, why don't you
want to go back to work?

And she says, I am too embarrassed.

I am too embarrassed.

I don't have a thumb, Michael.

I don't, I don't want to go back.

I don't want people judging me.

So let's, let's talk about that.

What can we do to help
you through this process?

And I brought up the idea
of settling with her.

She said, well, how does that work?

I said, well, I'll offer
you some, some of money.

And if you agree, then, you know, we
will be able to settle out your claim and

you'll be taken care of for the future.

Okay.

Even through that process, she
said, well, what if I don't like

the initial number you give me?

I said.

Then negotiate with me.

This is not, I'm going to give you,
let's say 1, 000 and you're done.

You take it or leave it.

That's not what this is about.

So I was even able to help her in
understand, okay, I don't want 1, 000.

I want 2, 000.

Okay.
Well, maybe I can offer you 1500.

And so this was not, we're on
sitting on, sitting on opposite

sides of the table and we're enemies.

This is me helping her
through the entire thing.

And so we were able to come to
a full settlement agreement.

But for me personally, my biggest
challenge was working with this individual

who not only had a traumatic injury.

That she was, she was mortified over,
but then there are the after effects too.

You don't always see that when
an injured worker is talking

with a workers comp adjuster.

Sometimes you do, and sometimes you
have these great adjusters and examiners

out there that are, that are able to
go the extra mile with injured workers.

Some are.

Some it's a churn and burn.

I've ticked a box on my checklist.

I'm done.

I called you once I introduced
myself to you, we're done.

And then that develops a lot
of animosity, doesn't it?

Absolutely.

In fact there were two follow ups
that I wanted to talk to you about

from that, but the first one was you
mentioning settlements, but since

we're talking about what makes a good.

Claims adjuster or not, right?

Your two examples that you just
gave show that you very much care

about the employees in your company.

And so I would ask you what
do you think makes a good

claims adjuster, risk manager?

And what, what do you think
somebody that's coming up in

the industry could learn from
the experiences that you've had?

First lesson, communicate.

Communicate, communicate,
communicate because you're the former

commissioner of workers compensation.

You have an immense amount of knowledge.

And if you were my adjuster
and I'm an injured worker, I

don't have your knowledge base.

I don't understand the occupational
injury system, whether it's workers comp,

it's non subscription, what have you.

So the first lesson that I would teach
any adjuster is You communicate with

the injured worker, explain to them
what their benefits are, explain to

them what their rights are, and then
you maintain that communication.

It's so easy to see.

So I support our company's operations
from the Southwest out to the Pacific.

So that includes California.

That includes Washington, Alaska,
Hawaii, and some of those jurisdictions

are really, really challenging.

Adjusters have a high
volume caseload, right?

They're, they're usually working
a hundred plus files and.

They made their contact with Johnny.

All right.

You know, I, I checked
that box off my list.

I did what I had to do.

And then they just start
handling paperwork.

And so I see so often where adjusters
check that box on their to do list.

But then they don't
maintain that communication.

Okay.
So, all right, I've started treatment.

You helped me find a provider.

What about my lost wage benefit?

Well, according to the statute
is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Okay.
Wait, I am not a legal person.

I am not a legislator.

I don't understand what that means.

And explain the process
from beginning to end.

Hopefully you don't get to the
point of permanent restrictions

where you can't come back to work.

Hopefully there's, you know
hopefully you're going to be able

to fully recover from your injury.

But.

Helping the injured worker through
the process that is such a key and the

first thing to do is communicate with
them and maintain that communication,

even if you don't get along.

And those can be challenging
situations, right?

Where an employee may be frustrated
or disgruntled at their employer or

their supervisor or their environment.

They've got family issues going on.

And for me, the claims handler or the
adjuster, it's their job to make sure

that the employee understands the
process and you help them navigate.

Through that process until the end.

God, that's great advice.

And I think something that we see a
lot in the workers comp system, at

least when I was at the agency, was
a significant lack of education and

understanding amongst the employees
amongst the, the workforce in general.

So just having that extra mile of Uh, if
a lot of adjusters had that, I think the

system would work a lot better than it.

I mean, it works great.

I'm not going to lie.

If the Texas system is a gold standard
and part of that is because we have

non subscription and we have that
competition in the marketplace.

And so when you have guys like Michael
that have been doing this for a long

time, that are very good at it and
I have figured out ways to better

Motivate their employees to come back
to work and to have these outcomes

it forces the system to become better
and then everybody gets better.

And that's the way it
should work in my mind.

And so I appreciate that feedback
you, you alluded to, and I'm still

going to get back to the settlement
issue because I'm now I want to

kind of arch it a different way.

So you just alluded to the fact that
you have claims in multiple states.

So could you kind of walk through your.

Company just a little bit as far as
what they do and what states they're in.

Yeah, of
course.

So BrightSpring Health Services, we are
the leading care provider for complex

populations in need of specialized care.

So we have community residential
based settings for individuals

with developmental disabilities.

We provide home care services to senior
citizens and those with special needs.

We have the largest closed door pharmacy.

In the nation in which we're
able to drop ship medications to

individuals at their homes, we need
to take them on a continual basis.

We operate 24 seven.

We have over 50, 000 employees and
we serve over a third of a million

people on a daily, on a daily basis.

So we have employees who are working
around the clock on the weekends

overnight during the holidays to
ensure that the individuals that

we serve can live their best lives.

With that, I believe that we're
currently in all 50 states.

And I support the Southwest
out to the Pacific.

I have a counterpart that handles
the East and Southern part of the

country and another counterpart who
handles the Northeast and Midwest.

So we get to see a lot.

of variances with the state regs and
rules and Texas being unique and that

we have the non subscriber option.

When we first opted out, we
actually elected to administer

all of our claims in house.

And that was another benefit that
we provide to our workers is that If

you're hurt on the job, you're not
going to speak with an outside adjuster.

Okay.
Tell me what you do.

Well, what are your lifting requirements?

You know, what is your daily process?

No, we know exactly what you do
because we're a fellow employee.

And so we're able to
administer those benefits.

So you don't have to tell
your story from A to Z.

And additionally, because we administer
claims in house, that means if I'm

handling your claim, I'm going to be there
for you from the time that you report

your incident until the final resolution.

You're not going to get passed
off from adjuster to adjuster.

You're going to talk
to me the entire time.

If you're going to work with Tina,
Sylvia or Letty in my department,

you're going to work with that one
individual and they're going to help

you through the entire, entire process.

That can't be understated.

I was sitting, I was sitting
here thinking about, we had just

Marriott points taken out randomly.

And by the time we, we called and set on
hold, we had to talk to four different

people, go through the whole story.

And I was extremely frustrated
with the whole process.

And that's just, that's just
vacation or hotel points.

I mean, imagine if

you're hurt at work and you're in pain,
I don't want to tell my story again.

I just told somebody else that's.

That's something again about, about
the lines of maintaining the lines of

communication open is to, again, help
the employee through the claims process.

We can't provide you medical
care directly, right?

I'm not a physician, but I can get you
to a qualified, a quality physician to

make sure that you are taken care of.

That's amazing.

So in the other states, you can't.

Opt out.

You can't be a non subscriber.

You can't tailor your benefits.

Do you see a difference in the outcomes in
Texas versus some of those other states?

Huge.

Yeah.

Huge.

So our vice president of risk way
back in the day charged us with

developing this non subscriber plan.

He left the company after a few
years and he recently came back.

So Michael, tell me about,
about this Texas program.

You know, it's been, it's
been ages since we've talked.

So I was starting to fill them in.

Tell me how many claims you've
had over a million dollars.

Zero.

Wait, what?

No, no, no, no.

I need you to dig in.

I'm like, I'm telling you, there are
no claims over a million dollars.

And why is that?

Well, thankfully we haven't
had any catastrophic claims.

I need some wood to knock on.

Right.

But two, We're, we're ensuring that
our employees have a safe workplace.

We're taking care of our employees
who are hurt at work and.

We are helping again, our injured workers
through the entire claims process, where

if you are in another state, Oklahoma, New
Mexico, California, Washington, the rules

are ever changing and ever evolving where
not only the injured worker may struggle

to understand what's going on, but those
who are administering the benefits.

And, and that is incredibly difficult.

I'll tell you a true
story is Washington state.

We were, coming to a settlement
agreement with an injured worker.

We had all the documents lined up.

We submitted them to the regulatory
agency and the regulatory agency

said, your agreements rejected.

Oh, well, what's wrong?

Well, we updated the forms.

We haven't told anybody about it.

They're in my binder here.

So we just need to go back
and redo the whole thing.

Like, wow, that took so long
to negotiate that agreement.

And we finally got everything, you know,
all the T's cross and all the I's dot.

Now we've got to start all over.

So in some States
there's lifetime medical.

So even if an employee.

May not be as let's say assertive
in wanting that future medical care

that's going to stay open and so
they'll get their PD benefits, right?

But then you have a dwindling treatment.

Oh, they resurface about a year
later or something of that nature

in our non subscriber plan.

Because we have the ability to settle
claims with injured workers, we can

provide you some money to make sure
that you're taken care of in the future.

And, and

there we go.

So and you brought up another
good point that ties into the, the

settlement issue, and that's it.

You haven't had a million
dollar claim in Texas.

And again, we'll, we'll find
some wood to knock on for you.

Yeah, thank you, . But you know several
years ago there was a, there was a

push nationally to potentially look at.

Expanding the, the Texas model and
I was the commissioner at the time.

And so I was ended up on a lot of panels
and a lot of places to discuss Texas.

And I heard routinely that one
of the big fears of allowing

non subscription was opening up.

employers to lawsuits.

Yes.

And, and at the time they pointed to
there in West Texas, not West Texas,

the town of West with great kolaches.

Oh yeah.

Um, , fertilizer facility
And it initially caught fire.

They did not have a
fire department in West.

So it was a lot of volunteer firefighters
that showed up from neighboring areas and

several of them died in the explosion.

And I remember we had a lot of
meetings in the governor's office.

The mayor of West came down what
are we going to do about this?

And you know, They
didn't have workers comp.

So, you know, that was a big question
mark, but then it turned out they

weren't a non subscriber either.

They were totally bare.

And when that was brought up as
an example from the other States

I said, well, they weren't, they
didn't have comp that's correct.

But they also didn't
have any coverage at all.

They went bare.

And in Texas, you can go bare.

And I remember at the time the
commissioner in Florida actually said,

well, that would never happen in Florida.

And I said, are you sure about that?

Because you have a lot of
employers in Florida that are bare.

It happens everywhere.

There's, there's, there's bad
actors and there's companies

that are cutting corners.

It's just the way it is.

Or can't afford to pay their bills.

Or can't afford, right.

There's, there's various reasons,
but not, not every company.

It takes care of their employees
and and ultimately we, we

sorted it out and we got it.

I think West actually has some new off
ramps and a highway and a new school.

So the governor really stepped
in and really helped him out.

And they, you know, helped
out with the families of those

firefighters that were lost.

But the point being.

Again, everybody's worried about getting
sued and the ultimate devastation

that that could cause for a company
to go under something like that.

And that fertilizer plant did end up
filing for bankruptcy, for example.

Now, again, that example is different
because they were non subscribers.

But why is it that everybody seems
to be worried in these other states

about the possibility of getting sued?

Or at least from the regulator standpoint
of having the employers getting sued.

But in Texas, where that's a
possibility for non subscribers,

that doesn't seem to be an issue.

Well, first I'll say, I think it is an
issue, but it's a manageable issue, right?

So if you ensure that your employees have
a safe place to work, if somebody comes up

and says, there is a slip and fall hazard
over here, then our management teams,

our supervisors go in and address it.

Right.

But my other, my other response to
your question is you still get sued

just in a different way, whether
it's workers comp or non sub, right?

Employer, or excuse me, injured
workers can go hire an attorney

and litigate the matter through
the workers compensation system.

So there's still litigation there,
which is going to exponentially

increase the cost of your claims.

And so your exposure goes
up, so on and so forth.

Now, being a non subscriber,
we don't necessarily have

those insurance protections.

So we're going to pay first dollars.

But again, if, if you as an employer
ensure that your employees have a safe

place to work, if an employee brings
up an issue with you about safety,

address it, document it, make sure
that you maintain that documentation.

So that way, if something else
happens in the future, you can

go back to those records and show
that, yeah, we did address it.

This is a different matter.

This isn't recurrent.

Then I think you're going to be fine.

You're always going to be
susceptible to lawsuits.

We all are, especially in this
very litigious day and age.

People are so happy this
morning getting ready for work.

I have the TV on and
it's, and what do you see?

Attorney commercial after
attorney commercial after

attorney commercial after attorney

commercial.

And you just, you just kind of hit on a.

Hit on where I think this was going a
little bit in that if you take care of

your employees, you're going to be fine.

So what I kind of done as a, you know,
from the regulator standpoint or former

regulator standpoint, I had looked at
specific discussion points that were asked

to me or concerns you know, about non
subscription from other states when I was

commissioner being on all those panels
for those, those several years there.

And essentially it was just concerns,
it was questions, it was fear of

the unknown, is really what, what
I was constantly being asked about.

And so I think the easier way
for me to approach that instead

of just listing off fear of the
unknowns is ask you two questions.

The first one is, do you think that
you would rather have non subscription

in other states or just in Texas?

Oh, I most definitely wish that we could
have non subscriber plans in other states.

Why?

First, it allows us to take
care of our own workforce.

Yeah, workers compensation coverage
does that, but if you're able to provide

better benefits in the state system to
your employees who are then going to

be going to recover and be healthy and
happy, happy workers, productive workers.

That's a, that's a huge selling point.

And, and I can also sympathize with
those regulators and those legislators

and other States who, who are scared
of the unknown, cause I've been there.

And if you don't talk to the right people,
you're going to get even more scared.

Right.

I won't, I attended a lecture
prior to becoming a non subscriber.

And it was facilitated by a
workers comp defense attorney and

a designated doctor here in Texas.

And so afterwards I went up to them and
I asked them, I said, what do you think?

You know I'm just terrified of this.

And the attorney said, well, you get
the right lawyers, you know, you,

you provide a safe workplace, blah,
blah, blah, you're going to be fine.

Designated doctor just looked at
me and goes, I wouldn't do it.

The liability exposure alone,
that just terrifies me.

Accidents happen.

That's why they're
called accidents, right?

Accidents do happen as long as you're able
to show that you're going to take care of

those employees and you actually follow
through with that promise that you're

going to take care of your employees.

Again, I think that
you're going to be fine.

So, you know, messages for folks
outside of Texas who might be

curious about non subscription or
might be scared of non subscription.

First, you need to talk
to the right people.

Don't talk to the workers comp
people because they're probably not

going to have a ton of experience
necessarily in that realm, but talk

to some fellow non subscribers.

That's something that I really
appreciated when we were exploring

this as an option was that our national
broker took my boss at the time and me

to various non subscribing employers.

And so I wasn't just talking with
that designated doctor or the

workers comp defense attorney.

I was talking with actual employers
who have done this for a while.

Fantastic.

And and, andh, thank
you for teeing this up.

You're, Michael, you're an amazing guest.

You're giving great examples.

You're giving great stories kind
of helping guide through this.

Yeah.

So speaking of learning every day.

You know, we've talked about
all the changes that you, you've

seen in 25 years in the industry.

Not just in Texas, but in many
other states, 24, I think you

said where do you see this going?

Where do you see the industry going?

Where do you see risk management going?

What do you, if you had a crystal ball?

What would it say or
what would it look like?

I think in reality, I will say that
we all know in the occupational injury

realms that it's heavily bureaucratic.

It's there's heavy paperwork.

And I don't think that we're going to get
away from that anytime in the near future.

You're going to have lots of regulations
and regulations are there for a reason.

I think we're going to see more of
that, but I also think too, that you're

going to see organizations like ARAWC.

Who protects the non subscriber
option be out there in the forefront,

educating people on the program.

And I think that you're going to
see some expansion again, hopefully

not through, not just in Texas,
but maybe in other states as well.

I think that there are opportunities
once, once folks learn and understand

what the opportunities truly are in being
a non subscriber employer, or if they

even go a step further and get their
QCARE designation, I think we're going

to see more and more of this because.

What's going on right now?

Well, we've seen the
meat, the me too movement.

We've seen black lives matter.

We are now seeing a
lot of employee unions.

You've got the United auto workers
strikes that were happening.

We've got the screen actors guild.

So we see a lot of unionization out
there, which is going to in turn result

in what more employee benefits, right?

How do you provide more employee benefits?

Well, You can stick with the
statutory system, but if you can

provide more benefits and better
benefits, I think you're going to

be in a better place as a company.

And then also your workforce is
going to be happier and healthier

taken care of for those reasons.

You mentioned QCare and ARAWC
obviously on the introduction of

this show, I said, this is ARAWC.

Forecasting Success.

The title sponsor of this podcast.

for those that don't know
who's ARAWC and what's QCare.

ARAWC is the association of responsible
alternatives to workers compensation.

We are a Texas based association
in which we protect the non

subscriber option for employers
and giving employers that choice.

You might choose to carry
statutory workers comp.

You may choose to be a self insured.

You may choose to carry nothing, but.

You can also choose to be a non subscriber
and provide quality occupational injury

benefits to your employees that are
comparable, if not better than the

state workers compensation system.

So we at ARAWC are here to
protect that option for employers

and giving them that choice.

Every few years, the Department of
Insurance issues a study about quality

of services for those who subscribe to
the statutory system and those who don't.

Now, in that study I think most
folks who have read that study know

that TDI tends to lump anybody who
doesn't carry statutory coverage into

a grouping called a non subscriber.

So that could be those employers
you mentioned earlier that go

bare, those who are self insured,
those who are non subscribers.

Those who wait.

Hold on.

How do you compare a company
who provides quality benefits?

With one who doesn't
provide any benefits at all.

So we at ARAWC went a step further
and developed the Q CARE designation.

Q CARE stands for Qualified Compensation
Alternative for Recovering Employees.

It is a designation in which
an employer can receive, if

they meet 10 high standards.

In other words, you take
care of your employers.

I take care of your employees.

You follow the rules because you
still have rules to follow both

on the state and federal level.

so those employers who have
gone that extra mile can receive

this Q care designation at
no cost to them, which helps.

Differentiate them from other TDI
classified non subscribers who don't

provide any coverage whatsoever.

Right.

And I, and I have to say I really enjoyed
the creation of QCare as an example of the

innovation in the non subscription market.

So when I was commissioner, we had
a chairman in our house oversight

committee on that side of the building.

And the chairman at the time was, was
getting beat up over Non subscription

versus workers comp versus go bear
and, and, and he said to me just flat

out, look, I know in the non workers
compensation space, there are good actors,

but I also know there are bad actors.

What's troubling me is I have no
way of distinguishing between the

two and it would be great if we
could have something that showed us.

As those with legislative oversight, this
is the chairman who has oversight of the

workers compensation committee in the
state or workers compensation system.

Sorry.

Chairman of the committee who
has oversight of the workers

compensation system in the state.

And he says, we have to
have something that shows.

Who the good guys are in that space.

And

that's why employers have ARAWC.

That's right.

They can join ARAWC.

They can, if they choose not to
join ARAWC, they can still apply

for acute care designation if
they meet those 10 standards.

So that way they can set themselves apart.

That's right.

And it's, it's a amazing Response.

And then another example of why
the Texas market works so great

and how we all work together.

You know, the old rising tide lifts all
boats analogy, I think is perfect here.

And it's just so wonderful to kick
this show off with somebody who

clearly cares about their employees.

Has so much expertise in the industry,
has been around who knows what's the

innovative approaches are, who knows
how to work with the employees knows how

to get the benefits that they need, get
them back to work, get everything going.

And then being able to also relay
that to our audience is fantastic.

So thank you so much.

For being on the show, Michael.

And also that's not a bad
haircut you have either.

I really like it a lot.

I'm a big fan of yours too.

Thank you so much for having me.

Yeah,
absolutely.

And thank you guys for joining us.

It has been a pleasure talking with
Michael and being with you today.

This has been a great experience and
I'm happy to send off the first ARAWC.

Forecasting Success Podcast, and looking
forward to being with you again next

time, don't forget to link, share, and
subscribe to ARAWC Forecasting Success.

Thank you.